The Elephant in the Room Property Podcast | Australian real estate
The Elephant In The Room Property Podcast with Veronica Morgan & Chris Bates


Episode 72 | Does owning a house = happiness? | Dr Tim Sharp, The Happiness Institute

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What happens when your heart rules your head?

Dr Timothy Sharp, otherwise known as Dr Happy, has spent decades studying psychology, lecturing & researching aspects of human behavior & emotion. He explains how emotions are entwined in everything we do. We learn that the way we think about things affects how we feel & behave, plus:

  • Why humans are less rational than we think.

  • Why it’s so hard to keep emotion out of property investment.

  • How planning ahead minimises implications of a property purchase.

  • Social & emotional intelligence & why it is so important.

  • Genetic & biological disposition to happiness, what can you control?

  • Minimalism, when it comes to property - do you really need it & will it add value to your life?


Dr Happy Downloads:

Work with Veronica?

Work with Chris?


Veronica Morgan: You're listening to the elephant in the room property podcast with the big things that never get talked about. Actually get talked about. I'm Veronica Morgan, real estate agent buyer's agent and co-host at Foxtells location, location, location Australia and up Chris Bates, financial planner, mortgage broker and wealth coach and together we're going to uncover who's really making the decisions when you buy a property, please stick around for this week's elephant rider boot camp and we have a cracking dumbo the week coming up.

Chris Bates: Before we get started, everything we talk about on this podcast is general in nature and should never be considered to be personal financial advice. If you're looking to get advice, please seek the help of a licensed financial adviser or buyer's agent. They will tailor and document their advice to your personal circumstances. Now let's get cracking.

Veronica Morgan: In this episode we're going to discuss some of life's big questions. In particular, how entwined our property and happiness do our homes have the potential to make us happy? What role does the provision of shelter security safety and as we move up Maslow's hierarchy of needs, status, aspiration, and a sense of achievement have in creating our mental wellbeing or what if we come at things from a different angle? I mean, does being happy result in us making better decisions and how does our state of mind play out when it comes to choosing a home, deciding what to pay, handling agents and how we deal with the fear of missing out.

Veronica Morgan: And don't think this episode is just for owner occupiers, there will plenty of gold for investors too, as we discussed, whether it is even possible to buy real estate without emotion. Our guest today has spent more than a decade studying psychology and another 10 or so years lecturing and researching aspects of human behavior and emotion. He's taught at many of the major universities in Australia and he's currently a professor of positive psychology at two leading universities. He's founder and chief happiness officer of The Happiness Institute, the bestselling author of The Happiness Handbook and a hundred ways to happiness, a guide for busy people, a regular media commentator who's been read and heard by millions people are now a few thousand more as you guys listened to it. So it's no surprise that he's become to be known as "Doctor Happy", but his real name is Dr. Timothy Sharp, and thank you so much for joining us today, Tim.

Tim Sharp: Thanks for having me.

Chris Bates: Thank you, Tim. Good to see you. Um, I guess, happiness is a, is a very funny term anyway. I mean, what's your version of happiness?

Tim Sharp: Yeah, look, that's a good place to start. Um, I spent a lot of my time trying to help people define happiness because it is often, um, yeah, uh, what is misunderstood? And it's used in lots of different ways by different people in different contexts. So, um, look, the simplest way to understand happiness is as one or two concepts. I suppose the, the simplest version of happiness is a version of positive emotions. That's one type of feeling good, long with joy and excitement and calm and satisfaction. Um, but what I am most interested in, and I suppose what positive psychology the science of happiness is most interested in is not just positive emotions. I mean, they are important, but they're very important in lots of ways. But more than that, what we're really talking about, I suppose is living our best lives, thriving and flourishing.

Tim Sharp: And so what that means is that in addition to positive emotions, which are part of that, it's also about meaning and purpose. It's also about physical health and wellbeing. It's also about very much about our relationships. So it's a, it's a bigger, broader, deeper concept I suppose, than just feeling good, which, which can sometimes be fleeting.

Chris Bates: And so a lot of what you're talking about there is that more around wellbeing. Like these are all the elements of kind of happiness is having multiple kinds of things going really well I guess in life is, yeah.

Tim Sharp: So, um, yeah, so there's a, there's a range of related terms, um, happiness or thriving and flourishing, wellness, wellbeing, etc. They mean slightly different things to different people, but yeah. Well, I'd say wellbeing is probably a broader concept that includes probably more of the physical focus on things, but, you're right, it is important when we're thinking, well if we think about happiness as I just described it as more than just a positive emotion and living a good life, then there are a number of domains that we need to address.

Chris Bates: How do you think that APP, you know, shelter, I guess it's, you know, we could see the properties shelters as a real basic, but then it's got so many other elements of property that it gives us. How do you think that that plays into happiness and how important is it?

Tim Sharp: Yeah, that's a fascinating question. I think we heard a little bit in the introduction about the different ways that we can think about property, I suppose the very basic level, it's a roof over our head, which, um, which is pretty important. Um, especially as, um, as the chill of winter comes in, uh, we might start to, hopefully somebody will start to appreciate, um, what it's like to have a one and what it might be like to be homeless. Say, for example, at a very basic level to have that security and comfort and warmth and protection, um, that's obviously important.

Tim Sharp: Um, above and beyond that, um, it can be a lot more so it can actually be home, which I would consider different to a property. Um, so more than just, well, it can be a financial investment and for most of us it is the biggest financial investment we make. Um, uh, but in addition, it's a place where we live with our loved ones, where we come home every night where we dine and sleep. And um, exactly. Um, so the, the can be a number of levels, all of which are valid, I suppose all of which are important, some of which I guess will be more or less important for different people at different stages of their lives too.

Chris Bates: So you said, right, one of the big ones around relationships, do you think that the home on it can create better relationships or worse relationships? Do you think that the home, is it key ingredient in and I guess in making that flourish?

Tim Sharp: Oh, it's definitely a big part. So, so when we talk about, um, there's almost no doubt at all that probably the most important thing for health, happiness, wellbeing, longevity, et Cetera, et Cetera, uh, is the quality of our relationships, a sense of connectedness, a sense of belonging. Um, but then we can look at that on a number of different levels. So the, the most intimate level is our immediate family. So for me it's my wife and children. So it's, you know, it's your loved one, your partner, possibly children, parents. And then we started go out by layers I suppose. So then it's your slightly extended family, then it's your close friends, then it's your long distant friends, et cetera. But certainly a home is somewhere where we spend, most of us spend time with at least one other person more often than not often a couple of people, if you have a, a number of generations there and um, and yeah, there's no doubt that there, um, if vitally important, I mean, as a parent myself I often say, you know, you're only as happy as your unhappiest child.

Tim Sharp: So any parent would know, you know, the heaviness of your children's happiness is vitally important to your happiness, but then that goes to your parents as well obviously if you, if your parents around well and that can affect you or if you even friends. So, um, so yes, it's very important, um, part of our health and well being generally.

Chris Bates: And do you think that status plays a lot into property? Do you think that status is a big part of happiness generally or you know, feeling like you've achieved or you know, feeling that other people will feel like you think you've achieved, you know, what's your, what's your thoughts on, on a status and home ownership I guess, and how it's interlinked?

Tim Sharp: Uh, look, the simple answer is yes. Um, I suppose if I were to put my idealist head on and say it shouldn't or I wish it didn't, um, ideally we probably shouldn't put as much emphasis on that.

Tim Sharp: And ideally people like myself off and talk about how, you know, material possessions or stuff that we own, including a house shouldn't necessarily determine our happiness. Um, but the reality is it does to some extent. And I suppose it's up to us to try to determine how much, um, but there's no doubt about, I think particularly in a city like Sydney, I mean, and it's, I think it sort of plays out a bit more or less in certain cities or certain countries, but, um, you know, there's no doubt that certain post codes or certain areas carry a certain prestige. Um, you know, people, you know, what school did he go to, what, what car do you drive? All those sort of things play into it. Um, but I, I think that is risky and we, we know that that is risky because we know that, um, there's a phenomenon that economists and psychologists talk about called the hedonic treadmill, which you may or may not have touched on in other episodes.

Tim Sharp: But you know, no matter what sort of, how nicely houses in, how nice the suburb he is, what we find is that it's never quite enough for people. And you just always look, cause there was the, most people unfortunately compare themselves up so they, they say a nicer house or a bigger house or a, and that, that's a, um, that's a recipe for disaster really. So the reality is it is important, but it's also a dangerous strategy to build our happiness on.

Veronica Morgan: We find that often we have clients that, you know, they'll come in and they'll say like, you know, I've got a budget of x and if only I had a budget of why. And I said, well, if you had the budget of why you'd be one of the budget is ed. And it's just human nature. We're always wanting more than we've got. Um, it's very rare you meet somebody who's actually truly centered and happy and settled, but then again, I can think aspiration is not a bad thing either. Right,

Tim Sharp: exactly. Yeah. Look, this is a really interesting phenomenon. Um, uh, and, and actually I was at a conference a few years ago with the Dalai Lama was speaking and someone actually asked him a question very much along those lines and I thought his was responses fascinating. So someone asked him essentially as a Buddhist, how do you, um, how do you wrap your mind around aspiration in and setting goals and, uh, and he, cause you know, we often think of Buddhism as a, as just being happy with what you have been content, but he actually said, and this is again, this really fascinated me that every, every good Buddhist is aspirational because we want to become Buddha. Like they want to become Buddha. Yep. Um, and no one ever gets their radio apart maybe from the Dalai Lama, but um, and so I thought that was very interesting. And essentially what he's a, I think what he was saying is it's okay to be aspirational.

Tim Sharp: Hmm. But it is a fine line and it is a fine balancing it because what we've got to protect against is just constantly wanting more and more and better and better. Cause then we never get there. Well we never get, there's always, there's always someone wealthy or there's always a bigger house. There's always a bigger budget. So I agree. I don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with wealth creation. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting more or buy nicer things, whatever. But we do need from a happiness specific, we need to be very careful about what we're going to get from it. And we won't really get that deep and meaningful happiness. What, what, which we can, we'll get much more from other factors like as we said earlier, quality relationships, and stuff.

Chris Bates: That's funny cause it, you know, I was with a client last weekend, um, yeah, he's got a house and I, you know, he's paid it off and he's, you know, he's done really well for himself. He's probably hasn't really like, focus too much around. He's kind of happiness and wellbeing. And, um, we had a really good chat and I was like, you've got to his house. And I said, you know, do you love it? And he goes, look, to be honest, we don't, we were paid it off, but we really don't want to be living here and you know, but that's going to mean we're going to go into debt and then we had a little chat about it. Look, I, you really gonna value it. Like, I you, you know, do you say it's going to be a much better life for yourself, for you and your kids and, and things like that.

Tim Sharp: And he goes, well, haven't really thought about it like that. I've just thought about it as a negative emotion. I'm going to go into more debt. And so then we kind of expanded the conversation around would you value it? Like do you, is there a point in doing this because a, it's a good investment. So it long term you will get that money back because you're buying good investment, but are you actually going to get some lifestyle benefits out of it? Cause if you're not, you're doing it for, you know, real other reasons. You're just doing it cause you, cause you can, and then that's not like you should. Yeah. Well that's it. And exactly. And then is that really, and when you get there you only happy and no, you've just kind of created more stress in your life. And I think, yeah, sometimes we've got to be thinking, well is this gonna make us happier then pursuing aspiration I guess.

Tim Sharp: Yeah. Look at first time I discussion and it tells. So one of the aspects that underlies all of this, I suppose from a happiness perspective and a financial perspective I guess is um, like different people have different tolerance for risk and for debt. Um, so what we know is that, um, much more so than wealth creating happiness, financial stability and security creates happiness. And that can be at any level. So there are people that are very happy and very content on what other people might think is a low income or low level of net wealth. Um, because that's, you know, it depends on your expectations and that's what they want and they're happy with it and they value other things just as much or more. Um, but there are obviously people that are more comfortable with risk and with debt. Um, and that's important to take into account.

Tim Sharp: So if you've got a low risk threshold or low, then you might not want to go into higher debt. Um, but then it depends on how a lot of other factors as well. But it is, I think it's great what you did there, that the conversation needs to be much broader than what a lot of people think about it. Money is not good or bad. House isn't good or bad. It depends on what it means to you. And I guess how it fits into other parts of your life.

Veronica Morgan: You mentioned about values and I think that's an important thing for people to take some time to actually look at them. Look inwards, I think what are my values and that sort of jumping. But most people don't do that. Not Enough. Cause we're not kinda of not taught that at school Lowery. Um, uh, in fact we're not taught that at all. I wasn't taught that sort of thing at school and yet, arguably that's one of the most important things we can do. So unless you for some reason, yeah, go to see a psychologist or a coach or someone like me or maybe read a, a good self help book or, um, most people don't ask those questions or they don't, uh, going into enough depth in their answers. And so, yeah, if you don't know what your values are, those sorts of decisions are very difficult.

Chris Bates: Yeah. I think that we're all in these kind of, you know, that's kind of our life's kind of been planned out, right? You go to school, you go to uni, you'd get a job, you buy a house, you have kids. And you know, a lot of people are in auto pilot just thinking that when they get to a point in life and they think, oh, actually no, I'm not actually doing a job. I love, I, you know, haven't done anything for myself. I'm not doing any hobbies or I haven't gone don't using creativity in my life because you have to have two so that they play with each other. They hate our guts. Yeah. There's no real point for them to kind of stop until they've kind of got it all or they've, well, we know there's a big gap from the house to the second kid till retirement. And then the thing that just kind of starts hitting him and going well is not really making me happy.

Tim Sharp: Um, oh look 100% right or not. I say this all the time and I've seen this over many, many years that most, most people don't plan their lives. Most people would just sort of accidentally stumble along and, and I guess for a lot of people it kinda turns out okay, I guess a lot of people are listening to this in Australia. Uh, you know, we live, if we're living in Australia for a start, we've probably got a pretty good life comparatively. Yeah. But you're 100% and it goes all the way back to school where, um, yeah. And I think school education is fantastic and other, again, in Australia we have a pretty good school system, but there's an excessive, almost exclusive focus on just one thing. And that sort of academic excellence. Yes. So you learn, you do well in exams.

Tim Sharp: That's pretty much it. They don't look at social skills very much. We don't look at social and emotional intelligence and, and what then happens as you get towards the end of school, you do tend to do the course that your marks get you into or that your parents have kind of guided you can do. So if you get a really high mark, you do medicine or law or if you're parents are interested in, in business, you might do commerce or economics, but very little emphasis is put in. What are you actually passionate about or what are your strengths that is getting a bit better. I think there's certainly, you know, my kids are getting to a stage now where I think they've had a little bit more focus on that then. Well, I had nothing really. But um, but there's still a long way to go. And so what that leads to eventually. Yeah, 100% right. And people in the, in careers and professions and even if they're successful in that, they're not very happy. Which, yeah, ultimately, well, it's not a great long term strategy, I don't think. Well, yeah, if you don't love it, you either you pursue it for, you know, status and money and you know, the knee keep just

Chris Bates: climbing that tree and you know, you're not getting anything fulfilled fromit,

Veronica Morgan: And then you go buy bigger and bigger house and you get a bigger, bigger and debt. And that ties you into continuing that whole thing, doesn't it?

Tim Sharp: Exactly. And that's, you know, that made up the bulk of my clients years ago when I had a practice who are, um, you know, I was based in the city. So, you know, a lot of them were, um, ostensibly very successful professionals. Um, uh, and when I say ostensibly, you know, high status job, high income, nice house, right neighborhood, private schools, et Cetera, et Cetera, et cetera. Um, but a lot of them were quite dissatisfied and, and, and I'm not saying you can't be happy in those provisions. Of course you can, but if you're not, then you know, it is a, it is worth going back to reassess your values or, or it's worth, um, you know, considering how you can approach that job in a different way might not have to change jobs, but maybe there's a different way you can go about what you're doing and yeah, like different projects or re you know, exactly getting some meaning from it. That actually is tangibles that actually gives you purpose I guess.

Veronica Morgan: Definitely the way we choose to think though, right and I mean not, you've got a great pdf which we're going to, I'm going to put in the, the uh, the links in the show notes here, but, um, examples of automatic negative thoughts and you know, I've actually got this occasional, a series of I've been posting thoughts on Linkedin, which is about flawed thinking and how it plays out in property. And so I found this, I thought that's quite interesting because I think that a lot of these automatic negative thoughts underpin the decisions that people make. And it's back to the elephant. So much of this is the elephant, you know, the subconscious mind reacting to things or you know, reacting to really your beliefs that a set in from childhood or all these sort of stuff. So can we talk a bit about that and about how that plays out, particularly with something as important, big is buying property?

Tim Sharp: Oh, for sure. So, um, yeah, just to go back a few steps. One of the, um, if not the biggest sort of finding in psychology over the last few decades or so, isn't it? It's probably sounds pretty obvious to a lot of listeners, but um, you know, if you go back several decades, it was quite a landmark finding is that the way we think about things affects how we feel and affects how we behave. So a lot of people would understand that now it's become part of our common way of thinking in a sense. But you know, again, that that really only came into the research and he developed, it became sort of popular in I suppose in the, probably in the 80s, maybe seventies or eighties. Um, and then 80s or 90s, really sort of got into popular self help books. That's relatively recently in certainly from an academic perspective, but certainly so the way we think about things definitely affects our decision making in or areas of life.

Tim Sharp: And as you hinted that just a minute ago, the way we think about things often, um, or at least largely evolves from early childhood events, parental influences, largely, um, so, you know, our parents player and not, not consciously or, um, uh, overtly, but, um, in the way we see and observe and learn a lot from our parents. So to go back to the point I made earlier, for example, if your, um, if one of your parents was, um, at, you know, debt averse or I'm not good at managing money or um, you know, then we can easily learn to become afraid of money or, um, or vice versa if one of the parents was a, was extravagant spender or, um, you know, so all of those things influence us. And definitely when it comes to buying a house, um, as we've again touched on, there are multiple motivations in it can be, it can be a roof over your head, it can be a financial investment, it can be a home, it can be all of these and several other things as well.

Tim Sharp: So, so your thoughts and beliefs about all of those things, your values about what's really important. Um, we'll come into that either in a, in a positive or a negative way. And again, as he said earlier, we're not always aware of these. In fact, we're often not aware of them. So what that means is we're being influenced by forces that we're not really conscious of. But the good news is we can learn to become more conscious of these things. And that's, that's really, again, that's, this is sort of foundational to most psychological approaches now that we can learn to become more aware of our thoughts and beliefs, we can then become more aware of how they're influencing us. Yup. And if they're having a positive influence, fine. But if they're not, then maybe we can look at changing them.

Tim Sharp: Yeah. See it a lot with money is money is such an emotional thing. And it, you know, growing up in certain families, you know what your parents' view on it was, you know, filters down to you. So if your parents didn't have money, you've got this scarcity, this feeling of instability. And so when you get older, you gone, you sometimes become a bit more independent and you want to save and things like that. And um, you know, you won't go on and spend money on experiences for example, because you have, you need a home and you must save and she become very frugal and um, you know, and then you delay gratification. You say, well, I can't be happy now. I've got to save. And, um, you know, that's not a great strategy as well. You know, like you shouldn't be just focusing on saving money. You should be enjoying life and spending money experience. So, I don't know. It's all these, it just the, that we have as kids

Chris Bates: in the values that we don't even think about. Um, just keep on playing out unless you actually stop and think, am I really, you know, putting myself first here? You know, you're just kind of go on the treadmill and you know, it'll be a D day at some point.

Tim Sharp: Exactly. Um, what do I, I think it is important to note, that, um, there's not necessarily any should, so everyone's different. So there's nothing wrong with saving if you're, if you're prepared to sacrifice and, you know, I'm not going to go on holidays, I'm not going to, I really want to save up or a house or whatever. That's fine. If you make that decision, then obviously that's what's your decision. Yeah, definitely. So, but I think that is important. Different everyone will have different motivations and there'll be all sorts of different reasons for that. So it is important to understand that everyone's different, but you're 100% right.

Tim Sharp: And look, I'm a, I guess to give you a personal example, classic example of someone that I grew up in a, um, I mean, we went, we weren't poor. We were sort of it, well, we're pretty average middle class I suppose, but, but, uh, I don't think we ever openly talked about it. And this is another issue actually of my family's never talk about finances, but I somehow I think I always leart the debt, my father was, um, was quite risk averse in dataverse. I think I always grew up, again, subconsciously probably thinking that debt was bad. Um, but then as I, um, as I sort of got a bit older and started them, a bit of success in my father in law was a, um, as a more successful investor and businessman, we started to, to borrow and made some investments, um, which was very successful for a while.

Tim Sharp: And then we got smashed by the GFC and got my burnt like a lot of people. So I've had some quite ups and downs and I guess I've had to learn through that, um, to find my balance, um, that, you know, I guess firstly that there's good debt and bad debt. For your listeners to know about that. Um, but what, and what's good and bad for me personally. And that's, again, that's not the same as, you know, be different for other people out there. But, uh, but again, I think the key is you hinted that, that we can't ever get to that stage if we're not aware of it. We need to actually find a way to work to stop and think and reflect on those sorts of things. And again, what's working and not working or find someone that can help you with that.

Veronica Morgan: I suppose the old unexamined life, isn't it? Yeah, I guess it's mostly pain that drives people to start to look into something that they didn't realize they weren't looking into, they weren't even aware of. And I guess that's a bit of a problem, isn't it?

Tim Sharp: Yeah. Again, another great question. Unfortunately it is, you know, as a, um, I don't practice as a clinical psychologist anymore, um, but I did for many, many years and as a clinical psychologist, you know, most people would only come to me and other people when they kind of hit rock bottom when there were some pretty significant trigger or trauma or event. Um, and in, in, in some ways that's understandable, but for years and ever really in my professional career, I just couldn't help but think, why didn't you come earlier? Why do people wait so long? If he'd come a year or five years or whatever years earlier would have, you know, the problem would have been, it's a big, we'll probably would have been easy to fix. And it's, it's very true, unfortunately.

Tim Sharp: Um, uh, it's, it does take off in a very severe often negative event to trigger someone. And that's not just true in psychology, been doing in medicine other areas as well. But you know, certainly would be well in, in, in Meijer, I suppose there's been this, um, I guess what some people call it the wellness revolution, which is kind of trying to encourage people to take a more preventative approach to be more proactive on, for their health, not just their ill health. And I think in a, I mean, I think in financial planning is probably the same, you know, a lot.

Chris Bates: I was thinking the exact same thing when you were talking there. I was thinking exactly right. So, um, you know, it's maybe a stigmatism. It's maybe a brand, you know, well you can't go see a psychologist because it means it must be something wrong.

Chris Bates: What's wrong with you? Well, no, nothing's wrong. I just want to get some advice. I just want to get second opinions. I just want to have the sounding board and you know, it's the same thing. I think the worry you, sometimes people don't want to go and seek professionals because sometimes they'll say things that I don't want to hear as well. You know, and I think, you know, a lot of times with financial advice is, you know, they'll come and sit down with me and um, I'll tell them exactly what they need to do on it. A lot of that sometimes, you know, maybe not spending you, maybe it is, you know, selling some properties. Maybe it isn't. And um, you know, I think probably a lot of times sometimes I'm the go to, I think when they're going to go to psychologist is they probably think that they're going to start telling them things that they didn't really want to think about. They, they want to live in these ignorance is bliss world and just continue on until it's too, they have to take action and um, you know, and then that's usually when it's too late because they've lost the biggest asset, which is time. And um, you know, and I think that's the big worry is that we don't go and seek help too. It's, you know,

Veronica Morgan: When it comes to property, there's so much tied up in it. We've already alluded to a lot of these, but there's, there's all these beliefs that around, yeah, the home and the shoulds and shouldn'ts and all that sort of stuff. And people will make decisions based on often a lot of other things other than actual property itself. And then it's only afterwards they sort of realize when the stress is lifted a little bit and they think, oh, they were actually, there's a few other alternatives. Yeah. Right. You know, and I see it, you know, I see it when people go and bid at auction for instance, and FOMO, you know, and it's that, that whole, they've just forgotten everything. All, the decisions they may have made beforehand in terms of what property might be worth to them or what their finances are or whatever, and then all of a sudden something else kicks him because it's sub, it suddenly means something different to them. MMM, mmm.

Tim Sharp: MMM. So I think that, yeah, there's no doubt about that. And again, I remember when we put our houses, same sort of thing. I think to some extent it's understandable because again, for a lot of people, well if we're talking about a home, not just any investment, um, it is more than just an investment. So it is very hard to keep that emotion out, but we probably should. Yeah.

Veronica Morgan: I find when people say to me, all right, I find people say to me, I want to make unemotional decisions around investments. It's about the dollars in the sense that it's about the numbers. And I'm like the thing though, often even saying that you are, so you're giving me a bit of a clue that there's a fair amount of fear around that. I mean, it's sounds sensible, but a lot of this, I'm not going to be really, really unemotional. A lot of that even that declaration is, is I think routine a fear and it's, that's an emotion. And so we need to express that and get that out because you can often walk away from really good investments and buy really shit investments because they're cheap and they'll make you feel better about being cheap, you know, as opposed to making really good investment decisions. So it's really interesting how it all plays out in investing as well as in your own home.

Tim Sharp: Uh, again, again, who spent, right. Um, there's a, there's a couple of things here I think. Um, yeah, uh, again, it's, it's quite amazing that for, again, for most of us, our biggest financial decision is made with very little research and very little advice really. Um, which is quite bizarre when you think about it. And that's the biggest thing that most of us, are buying, we often don't talk to experts or that think it through and that's about it. You know, there's a variety of reasons for that, I guess. But, but the other one told what they don't want to hear what you said. Sometimes you don't want to be told that you can't do it.

Chris Bates: I want, my parents told me I should do it. My friends, my colleagues, bye. Everyone around me. Society tells me I need to go buy a property. And then you go speak to someone and they say, oh, actually know what, it's probably not the right thing to do right now. You need to save more. You need to get your budget, you need to pay off your credit card. Um, and so they don't want to hear that. They just want to be able to get what they want today. And it's that kind of impulsive kind of society we live in that also.

Tim Sharp: Yeah. And that reinforces what I was just going to say a minute ago as well, which is that we offer, and there's a lot of research, a lot of psychological research on this. We often think we're much more rational than we are. Humans are, humans are far less rational than we think we are when it comes to almost any decision making process. Um, we, we can be rational. Um, but often we're not our emotions and a whole range of other factors. I mean, even even the context wherein can affect our decision making much more than people realized. So they've been researching. So if you look at even looking at buying, um, you know, um, breakfast cereals on the shelves for example, there's a whole range of factors that affect that, but we're not even aware of, for example. Yeah. Um, oh, whoa, whoa. I mean just, well the coloring and the, I mean, you know, the branding of the packet, the position on the shelves. So you know, there's a reason why the big names, um, buy they pay a lot for prime positioning, which is sort of from your eye level down to your belly button levels. that sort of thing. Cause that's, people often don't look right down low and they don't look right up at. So just simple things that, that, um, there's been, uh, the size of the plate for example, determines how much we eat. So, you know, we think we're eating till, we're hungry or to were not hungry anymore.

Tim Sharp: But we actually eat a lot more than that, often because of serving sizes. And so, you know, that's where a little thing, like a meal or a purchase, but when at the same fact is gonna effect at buying and buying a house. So you know how many other bidders there are for example, and how aggressive the other bit is, can affect you going above and below. So, but, but I think it's a, coming back to Jay and I think this is what you were saying earlier, being aware of the role of emotions. It's one of the first steps to try to contain that or manage that in a way.

Chris Bates: And happiness. I mean, I read on your website and I do agree with that. Yeah. Can you do, choose to be happy and do you have to make a conscious choice, um, you know, to, to be happy today and your situation today or at least be striving towards it or will it just magically appear?

Tim Sharp: Yes. No, yes, not yet. Um, so can you choose to be happy? Yes and no. So I'll go back a step earlier. There are a number of factors that can influence our happiness. Um, uh, one of which, um, at least partially is a sort of genetic or biological makeup predisposition. So, so there's no doubt that we're, we're all born at to some extent with a predisposition to be happy, a little less happy or whatever. Um, and that's, you know, you can probably leave, you look around your friends or your colleagues, you'll see that there are some people who it's, they don't have to make an effort. It's just easier. They wake up in the morning and the whistling a heavy tune and they smile and whatever's going on around them.

Veronica Morgan: Is that biochemical?

Tim Sharp: And to some extent, yes, to be honest, we don't really understand and there's a lot more, yeah, we really don't understand is it's partly the way that our brains are made up and there's a whole range of factors that, um, that we're still researching.

Tim Sharp: But that being said, there's no doubt that to some extent, um, we don't have control over that. But the good news is not 100%. And so this is where the choice or the control, uh, at least, at least some and a significant proportion is within our control. And that comes down to, you know, what we do each and everyday. So regardless of your sort of biological or genetic makeup, whatever, you can still, we can still choose to think about things in certain ways to do things in certain ways. Um, interact with other people in certain ways. So we, you know, you can choose to exercise or eat well or be polite or be kind or be grateful. Um, and the sum total of those choices and decisions will to some extent make up your happiness. Now there are some people who are just genetically lucky who might be in a gold medal winners.

Tim Sharp: Not all of us will be an Olympian. The metaphor I sometimes use is that, um, you know, I could go, I could go to the pool and get lessons and train to swim and practice every day for weeks and weeks, a month, a month. I would never win a gold medal in the hundred meter freestyle. I'm not genetic. You know, you need to be as much as much as those guys train hard and worker. They're also genetically blessed of the body, a certain size and shape. But even if I'm not going to be an Olympic gold medalist, I can still be a bit better. You can still be a little bit better and that's what we can all do. So are the your starting from yes. You can still choose to make the most of what you have I suppose.

Chris Bates: So I guess it's not trying to get here today, it's more just incremental improvements and over time they kind of compound like that kind of Kaizen philosophy.

Tim Sharp: We'll a little bit, it's one of those things. See, I guess you've heard a bit about what you know is happiness, the, the journey or the destination. Um, and it's kind of both. Um, by that I mean, you know, working towards setting and working towards and achieving goals is important and it feels good, you know, a sense of satisfaction, but it's not as though you can ever get to the point of being happy and then just stop and say, right, I'm there. Got to keep working at it. And it's, again, the metaphor I often use is with physical health and wellbeing. If I go to the gym every day and work out, I can get fitter and stronger. But if I stopped going to the gym, I'll lose a lot of them. And it's the same with happiness. If you stopped doing the sorts of things that contribute to your health and wellbeing, your happiness are probably clear... Practice and well it's an ongoing day.

Tim Sharp: It definitely has practice and like, um, like with many other areas of life, the more you practice, the better you get. But it's also something you've just gotta be built into your life. It's just somebody's practice.

Veronica Morgan: Yes, yes, definitely. It's a practice. So it's a daily rituals around what you need to do. Do you think happy people make better decisions now?

Tim Sharp: This is a really interesting one and there's some, I guess, kind of mixed research. So in many ways, yes, but it depends on the nature of the decision making and the context they're in. So, um, most of the studies in most of the areas we've looked at the decision that the answer is yes. So happy people tend to be more productive. They tend to be more creative and more innovative, so they tend to solve problems better, et Cetera, et cetera. But there are some areas, interestingly, we're not, we don't want people to be miserable, but we're kind of, well, we're more of a neutral mood can actually be better.

Tim Sharp: And this is important. It's not about being really depressed, but kind of a neutral. And that's where the decision making is. So if we're looking at very analytical type decisions, so this is why, for example, lawyers for example, the best lawyers are not necessarily the happiest ones. Again, they're not most depressed ones, but they're gone and things like, so we're, we're very fine detail is involved. So where there's a strong element of risk assessment. So I think one of the others I've looked at is air traffic controllers. We don't necessarily want them to be exuberantly happy. We want them to be able to, because I've got to focus again, I'm very fine detail. Um, so again, it's kind of yes and no more often than this.

Veronica Morgan: Is that becasue there might be, if they're overly positive, they might gloss over the possibility of bad things could happen.

Tim Sharp: Yeah, pretty much.

Tim Sharp: Yes. It's fascinating and again, it comes out. So happiness means different things in different contexts that can be more or less helpful in different comments. You know, we don't necessarily want to be exuberantly happy all the time. Well, we can't anyway. No one will be anyway, that's another, um, you know, no matter who you are, what your context is, and even if all of your life circumstances are looking great, it's totally normal and totally appropriate to experience what, what psychologists would call the negative emotion. So it's normal to feel angry sometimes. It's not what I get frustrated or sad or anxious or stressed. These are totally normal and at times appropriate human emotions. You know, if you, you lose a loved one, it's appropriate to grieve. Um, so yeah, it's, it is important when we're talking about thriving and flourishing and living our best lives, that's not being smiling and happy every minute of every day going to be a range of emotions depending on what's going on.

Chris Bates: And you think, no, the societies are built to direct is built on unhappiness though. You know, I guess consumerism, spending a lot of societies, you know, it wouldn't be productive i mean the only we reason we've got innovation is generally because people say, well, what we've got today isn't good enough. We need something better. And so, you know, we, this microphone for example, isn't good enough. We need to make a better one. I'm unhappy with this and I know I can sell it. So you think that the society is basically built on, on happiness really? You know, that's what really drives the whole system.

Tim Sharp: Uh, yeah. Again, yes and no. I think certainly there's, um, there's elements of it. I think that there's sort of two parts to what you're saying. Um, and it was interesting. I was just at a, at a, um, part of an event yesterday, whereas I'm working with some engineers and designers, um, whose, whose job is to solve problems basically.

Tim Sharp: And that's, you know, one of them actually said, um, that's the, you know, the source of a lot of these ideas comes from frustration when he's frustrated is I'm like, it's not working well that contributes. Well, how can I make this better? How can I invent something new? So I think that frustration in that sense can certainly lead to progress, which is a good thing. The other part, which I think is probably a little bit different is, is I suppose capitalism and materialism. Yup. And Yeah, look, there's no doubt that, and this is one of the causes of our own happiness to some extent in, in the modern Western world, we're constantly bombarded with literally thousands of messages every day, essentially telling us you're not happy. You will be happier if you buy this, if you wear this certain clothes, if you buy this soft drink, if you,

Veronica Morgan: It's um, externally, as opposed to internally.

Tim Sharp: Well, I think that so, but again, what we need to understand it. So that's, that's life. Um, where, you know, there are pros and cons with every particular model, but it seems as though the best model for us to live within at the moment is some version of capitalism. You and so, um, and so with capitalism comes advertising and marketing. Um, and you know, again, it's not necessarily good or bad I think, but what we do need to be, I'll is more aware of those messages and the influences that have and what we need to be aware is that we don't actually have to listen to them. Yes. We don't have to respond to them. So just because someone's telling me I do need to buy a new car, I don't have to. If my, if my current car is good enough or just because someone's telling me I need the latest iPhone, well I don't, I've found I've got now is a way if it's working perfectly well.

Tim Sharp: But I think again, but not as many people think through those decisions that it's very easy to get sucked in and in. And even I, as someone who's, who tries to be aware of it, it's very, oh gosh, wouldn't it be nice to have that? Yeah. And it is nice. Sometimes it's not bad to, you know, if you, you know, like new clothes or whatever it might be when you gadgets. Um, that's not, that's not the worst thing in the world. Um, but it can well, but it can be, I suppose it can be problematic if it's going to lead to financial strain. If you're living beyond your means or if you're looking for more happiness than you really going to get. Yes.

Veronica Morgan: Yeah. That's a good one.

Chris Bates: Yeah. I guess it's all comes from down to being grateful for what you have and thankful for what you've got today and not wanting something that you haven't got and you know, thinking, well, I can't be happy today because I haven't got, you know, x, you know, this is one of the reasons when I love, I love traveling so much is that, you know, when I, you know, do travel generally I'm not going to find a big kind of cities. I'll go to countries that are probably less fortunate and probably struggle a bit more. And I usually find that really on, coming back from those holidays because that's when I really learned the most. It makes me really stop and question and make me question how lucky I am to live in Australia and things like that. I guess it's kind of, that's the exposure to that. But if you live in a bubble, for example, you've grown up, you know, in an expensive house, in expensive cars, where's, the kind of limit you're going to keep on, you know, setting higher bars and it's not really going to make you any happier really.

Tim Sharp: Well the, the, so there's no doubt gratitude's a, a really important part of, of happiness. Being in a heavy, people focus more on what they have and less than what they don't have. Um, it's, um, it's not that happy. People are more grateful. It's a grateful, people are happier. Um, so that's, that's very much it. Um, and the other part that, um, you know, I think we've sort of almost touched on a bit earlier is you might've heard of the been a quite a big sort of focus in the last years. I'm on minimalism on the minimums, Marie Kondo, sort of an example of that. And um, that those, those sorts of related movements are often a bit misunderstood. So my understanding is, and I've read and thought quite a lot about this, is that it's not necessarily about, it's not about never buying anything new, but what they're really encouraging people, and you touched on this, so that is to just before you buy something, asked that question, do I really need it?

Tim Sharp: Well, is this going to add to my life? Will this add value or joy or whatever? And if the answer's yes, then fine, it's really gone to, and you, so when you're talking to your client, talking about your clientele about that possible new house has the same sort of thing, if it's really going to add value and maybe that that's worthwhile. But if it's not, if it's just another thing that's going to sit and just another cupboard or a drawer, um, why, but, and again, I don't think not enough people sort of think through that as carefully as they should. And I think there's researchers suggest that a lot of us anywhere, you know, 30% of the clothes in our wardrobe and that sort of thing. I mean, what a waste.

Veronica Morgan: Exactly. It's interesting. And in, in terms of housing, you got these bigger and bigger houses being built. I think Australians have the biggest per square meter per capita house, you know, in the world to fill with more stuff.

Tim Sharp: You know, and is that a trap? You know, one of the biggest growing businesses is storage units. So I big houses and big enough we're going to have a big house and never get enough storage.

Veronica Morgan: Just all the stuff we actually need and hasn't really made us happy. I think when it comes to property or one of the things that I find, um, you know, have years and years, years of looking at, you know, working with clients but also observing other people. And observing the decisions that you've made, that your life actually becomes easier if you do make the right decision and the right decision. It's come from being more aware I think, and being more conscious of what you're doing because then when you're unconscious and you make decisions and then you sort of wake up from that and realize that you're trapped. Because the problem is with buying property like a bit like walking through a turnstile, they go one way, you bought it, you're on the other side of that turnstile. You can look back, but you are on the other side of the turnstyle on.

Veronica Morgan: Likewise, when you sell it the same thing that they say they quite monumental decisions to buy or sell property and the're financially, the implications are huge and the potential to live with regret. You know when you wake up and realize that, oh, there were other options or I didn't have to do that. Or maybe people don't even, oh, often they don't even reflect that much. They just know that whatever it is is, is not working for them. And that it, that is, you know, I think something that's really important, we probably that, that, that, you know, I really wanna encourage people to take more time and understand the implications of what they're doing. It's not just that financial implication. It's that happiness implication.

Chris Bates: Yeah. Okay. So in terms as pursuing money and you know, and pursuing wealth and wealth creation, you know, what should it kind of, what's the problems with kind of going down that direction? Cause a lot of people would say, I'm not going to buy any of this. And probably cause you know, I the, I don't really, I haven't really attached to any reason why they'd want money. And I guess even if they do think they need money, they're just saying I need more money. I need more money or I don't need more money. And they kind of stop themselves today because they haven't actually got a clear angle of when they want, I want to end up and what am I going to use that money for? Like what does money enable? I guess, and you know, it doesn't allow me to pursue passions. Does it allow me to take a better job? But I think a lot of people would just think that more money can mean more possessions. And I guess we know that that's not really the right route to go down. You know, so, I guess it's using money the right way. Would you kind of agree with that or? Yeah.

Tim Sharp: Well I think it goes back to the point where my very, very early on, which is that not enough people really think about planning their lives. Cause if you don't know what the end goal, and again, there'll be different for every person know I'm guessing you'll will also be very different to mine and, and et Cetera, vice versa. But, um, um, but if we don't know that, then all of these other questions becomes so hard to answer. So I think it's really got to go back to that where people, I guess ideally and ideally, as early as possible, I'd be encouraging people to think, you know, what, what would your life look like now? It's, I know it's hard when you're saying your 20s to think about, well, you know, being in your 80s or whatever, but, and, and even if you do, you probably won't get 100% right, but it doesn't matter as long as you, as long as you're getting close to it or at least giving it some thought because then we can, you know, this is where I would like to be. And again, there's no right or wrong answers. Again, it's going to be very different for different people, but then we can start to work back and say, okay, this is where you want to be. Yeah. What what am i menat to do now in order exactly what steps are needed. And then for different people, depending on that, money will play a different role. Uh, and again, it's not right or wrong, it's just different. Um, so until you answer that, and even what we said earlier about values and until you go back and answer those really basic questions, you just stumbling along. Um, and as, as you quite rightly said, you know, you're going to often stumble into the wrong choices of the wrong decisions, which is not great. I, again, I was thinking about that in a house buying just before. When you're saying it's a thing that really most people, the only conversation most people would probably have, I'm guessing is that they go to the bank and say, how much can I borrow? Yeah. And is this is my, this is that much. I've got, this is my income. Um, but clearly it's about much, I mean, that is an important question. There's a lot of other important questions as well, which unfortunately I'm not enough.

Chris Bates: Every week we hear incredible stories, the dumb things, property buyers do, dumb things that ended up costing a whole lot of money and, or creating a whole lot of stress or mistakes that can be avoided. Please team, can you give us an example of a property dumbo? We can all learn what not to do from the stories.

Tim Sharp: Ugh. Well, thankfully I haven't really met. Thankfully, we've been, uh, we've been very lucky as I haven't made any dumbos my wife and I have them, we're on our second house. Um, and both of them, uh, well we were exceptionally lucky them both after that passed in at auction, which I think is the best time to ever buy a house. I think. Um, well they were both desperate sellers and we just happened to be like to be along at the right place. So personally, I'm, I'm, thankfully I've been pretty lucky, but, um, I think when I think it through friends and family, yeah, I think definitely, um, the, the mistakes that I have heard of people making, uh, as we've talked about, just, um, because I haven't thought it through or I suppose one of the other things that now that I'm thinking about it that hasn't really come up is when, um, a couple, when, but when different people in the couple have different ideas, Yes. Yes. I'm not sure how often that comes out of here, but as I think about it now, um, you know, that, you know, with it husband or wife had at different ideas, um, get pushed out of down one way and then one person sort of never quite satisfied. Is that something that, yeah.

Chris Bates: Oh, 100%. I see that. I mean, I, that's why I always have the first call is generally with one side, cause they reach out to me, but the second meeting I'm always, you know, both of you need to be there. Yeah. Um, and we both need to get it all out on the table. And sometimes in those conversations, the one's being a bit more dominating or as the speaker and the other one's more of the passive person and they speak when they're ready, you know, it's their opportunity to speak. And you know, in that situation, I'll usually focus my attention generally on the person who's not speaking quite often. And, um, you know, because it's so important that they're both there and they're both on this journey because it's such a big decision and, um, you know, it's they could want different things and if they've not given that forum to talk, um, next thing you know, they've signed the mortgage, they've got the house, um, and not until two years later.

Chris Bates: And the resentment starts and you know, I shouldn't have done it.

Veronica Morgan: Quicker than that. Sorry. The passive aggressive stuff that goes on. I've seen more so when I was filming the show actually, but you, you'd see these go on with some couples where one would win one to be dominant and win the other one would be subversive, you know, and they actually sabotage and you know, and so you'd find deals would never come off because one looks like they're going to get their own way and the other one's like, oh, you're not, but I'm not going to come out openly and say that. And so you see that behavior. And the other thing that we'd, we'd see is that people then would be the: told you so told you, so told you so. So you've got what are revolting way to leave. You talk about good quality of relationships being um, being a big key to happiness. That's, that's where the whole housing thing and happiness is very much intrinsically woven together when you got couples in that situation, it's pretty horrible.

Chris Bates: Do you think about self discovery and self, you know, do you think that both sides of the couple was really important to, you know, if you want is going down that journey and just thinking about this, that the partners kind of try going on that journey as well or,

Tim Sharp: oh, I was very much so. Yeah. I mean to go back, wait, there's no doubt that your intimate relationships are at war. All of your relationships, particularly in it's one like a husband or wife or boyfriend and girlfriend is vitally important to health and happiness, you know? Um, but yeah, 100%, so whoever that other person is, um, uh, you know, if my partner is, is unhappy or nagging or whatever it is, you know, it's really hard for me to be happy that's going on.

Tim Sharp: Um, so the, you know, the core, that relationship's important. Um, and the core to that relationships is, is largely or significant determined by communication. I mean it sounds very obvious, but that's one of the keys. And, and again, I mean to go a little bit off property, but if you go into happy marriages, um, too many people, um, you know, we think, oh, I love this person. I want to be this with someone. But not all people talk about, well, how many kids do you want? Do you want kids to know? How many kids do you want? Um, what are your thoughts on schooling? You know, private versus public. What are your thoughts on finances? You know, some people are much more and all these big issues which can ultimately, oh, you know, which are ultimately important for the quality of our life. We're going in, you know, make a decision to live with this person.

Tim Sharp: But if you ever really thought those through, through those big issues and religion and whatever, then um, that can easily cause problems later on.

Chris Bates: And the values, I guess it always comes back to that. That's not yours. If you, you know, you disconnect on what your, and if you don't really know what those are, um, and you know, and yours isn't getting met or they don't value it at all, it just keeps clashing, doesn't, and it doesn't do, it'll never go away unless you really identify and talk about, a lot of people don't think through these things. And I understand why, especially, you know, I mean, if you're young and in love wwhatever. But what we should really, you know, even, and not just having children but in a different approaches to disciplining or raising children and these are the, is a really important issues that more, yeah. I wish more people would think through at least a little bit more clearly. Um, earlier on.

Chris Bates: It's funny, I have, I asked the questions while, I'm sorry. In terms of, um, you know, it's, it was a client yesterday, you know, he's 29. He's single. Um, he wants to buy a property and um, you know, I'm like, well, you know, if, if you meet someone, you know, do you know, do you think you'd want to meet someone and have a relationship yep yep, yep. And you know, if that did happen, did you, do you think you'd want to have kids? And it's very hard to ask a single 29 year old guy. I like that question. He's like, well, then he was pretty blunt. And he said, well, yeah, actually I would, you know, that would be my dream. I said, well now let's say that happens, right? You do, you do meet someone and you do settle down and it can happen quite quickly and you're going to have kids, are you really gonna want to live in that apartment?

Speaker 4: And you know, and he goes probably not, you know, because it's just not where I want to live in. He said that, and I said, well, now what could happen, I've seen it lots of times before, is you'll get to that situation. You've been in the apartment and then you met someone and then you don't want the apartment anymore and you're going to sell the apartment and that whole exercise is going to be pointless. That's what we were then doing this. And what can we do is maybe buy a house that you could grow into if you do meet someone. Um, and regardless, that could be a better investment anyway. And so it kind of just, it was asking someone who's single 29, no, do, they want kids. And you know, sometimes clients will say, well no, it's in the future. It's five years away. And five years comes up pretty quick. Oh, was this lie? But that's great. I mean that's um, you know, again, nothing, well I don't know how many property advisors or financial advisors, bank managers ask some of those bigger questions. Probably not enough example. Cause it is, they fantastic questions, important questions to be asking. Perfectly appropriate question.

Veronica Morgan: That's why we brought you here today. Thank you so much. That's been a really, really great chat. Um, I think there's like always we get in these conversations. I feel like we could go on for another hour. Um, but we can't, we don't have any longer so we have to wrap up. So the clock is all right John sitting there. No, no, no he not, he's not hustling as hard, but don't in all seriousness, thank you so much for joining us. We've really enjoyed this chat is, oh, this is really important stuff and it all is all about being more aware and once we're aware there are things that we can do, um, that will help us I guess take ourselves in the direction that we really want to go in. And um, we're going to put the links to your website on the show notes and obviously we encourage you all to go there and you can download the transcript. You can get our fields are forecasters report if you're interested in that as well. But also the other thing on the website, I mean, um, the other thing we'd love to ask our listeners is please give us a review on iTunes. You know, these reviews help us, uh, spread the word, I guess, and, and share these messages. So if you're enjoying what you're listening to, please share and please also give us a review. We really appreciate it.

New Speaker: A couple of thousand listeners, we've got about hundred and 20k iTunes, five stars. So you know, there must be a few of you out there that have impressed the five star button. So we'd love that. I love comments and thank you. Thank you doctor happy. That's been amazing. We, um, it's just, you know, my view on property is that, you know, there is a huge happiness element to it, but you've got to appreciate it when you get it and you've got to be thankful when you've got it and in, and not just always kind of think, well, I've got this house, I'm going to upgrading five years now I've got a house, I'm happy. That's good for me. And it makes me happy because I get to spend time with my family in this space and you know, and it's airy and it's light and it gives me, it gives me creativity and things like that. So there's so many elements there that we need in our properties. So thank you very much. Oh, thanks for having me. We wanted to make you a bet at elephant rider and this week's elephant rider training is:

Veronica Morgan: talking more about couples buying property together. We did touch on this a bit in this a chat with Tim. It's very, very interesting. And what happens when couples are trying to agree on what's important and um, you know, what they need to focus on when they're buying a property. It can often lead to a lot of conflict and it's hard because I guess I see people in my office a lot where, where they'd been looking along time together and they've not necessarily been on the same page. And quite often you'll have one. You might express an opinion. The other one we'll look at them and said, well, you don't really know anything about property. Um, so I'm not going to listen to you. And then the other one we'll do exactly the same thing. One of the things that I find that a lot of couples do, which is really ill advised, and that is one will do all the legwork.

Veronica Morgan: So one goes out, does all the research, all the initial inspections, then basically presents a shortlist to their partner and then, and then they'll go through and they are not as educated in the market or on the market. Um, and they will go to those properties and quite often they'll just poo poo them, you know, and that's how I'm not paying that for that or that's nothing like I want. And that's a really difficult situation because the first person then starts getting pretty resentful because they've done all this work. So will you pull your finger out then in that case? So I think the one thing I would say in his elephant, right? A boot camp is if you're buying with your partner, you both need to put equal imput into the actual search process. Another thing that we do with all of our clients, we actually get our clients to individually, right?

Veronica Morgan: Their wish lists or their briefs and, and then we will look at them together. What often happens with couples in particularly the longer they search unsuccessfully is that the, the things that they disagree on become really dominant. And the reality is, and even I've had people that have been looking for up to four years without having found a property. When we get them to write down what they want individually, separately without looking at each other's notes, we often find that it's a lot more common ground than they've realized. It's just the moved completely off the common ground and they are in the areas of difference and they're never to buy if that is the case. So they're just a couple of tips that we find through dealing with couples a lot that, you know, when we address these we can get couples on the same page very, very quickly. In my business, we have a process that we go through to help them get to that point. But they're two fundamentals that I can encourage anybody to look at. If you are actually looking at buying with your partner.

Veronica Morgan: Join us for our next episode when we interview Roger Montgomery who's a very well known commentator on the subject of investing and we talked to him about really I guess concept of value investing, how it applies in the share market versus the property market. Why some money market experts are very bearish on property or they don't like it. They think that uh, the equities markets are vastly superior. Does Roger agree or not? We'll find out. We also have a very good conversation about interest rates, where they going, why are they going to go there and what the likely impact of that is going to be on the property market. And just as an aside, the impact of a slow down in new residential construction. So there's a lot in this episode and we hope you can join us. Don't forget we're on all the social channels. We're on Facebook, we're on Linkedin, onTwitter or you can connect with us on, the links are all there for you. Please connect and send us a message we'd love to hear from you. The elephant in the room property podcast is recorded at the Sydney Sound Brewery. This week's podcast was recorded by John Hresc, editorial by Gordy Fletcher. Until next week, don't be a dumbo!

Veronica Morgan: Now remember, everything we talked about on this podcast is general in nature and should never be considered to be personal financial advice. If you're looking to get advice, please seek the help of a licensed financial advisor or buyer's agent who will tailor and document their advice to your personal circumstances with a statement of advice.

Veronica Morgan